Ramba
07-14 10:02 PM
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I do not think what you are saying is correct. Ac21 does not allow you to leave before 180 days of your 485 filing.
Have you read the USCIS question? If not, read few times to understand how your interpretation is wrong.
Question 10. Should service centers or district offices deny portability cases on the sole basis that the alien has left his or her employment with the I-140 petitioner prior to the I-485 application pending for 180 days?
Answer: No. The basis for adjustment is not actual (current) employment but prospective employment. Since there is no requirement that the alien have ever been employed by the petitioner while the I-140 and/or I-485 was pending, the fact that an alien left the I-140 petitioner before the I-485 has been pending 180 days will not necessarily render the alien ineligible to port. However, in all cases an offer of employment must have been bona fide. This means that, as of the time the I-140 was filed and at the time of filing the I-485 if not filed concurrently, the I-140 petitioner must have had the intent to employ the beneficiary, and the alien must have intended to undertake the employment, upon adjustment. Adjudicators should not presume absence of such intent and may take the I-140 and supporting documents themselves as prima facie evidence of such intent, but in appropriate cases additional evidence or investigation may be appropriate.
The bottom line is if his approved 140 is not revoked with in 180 days of filing the 485, his 485 is still valid even if ported the job with in a month after filing 485.
The RFE is trying to determine whether your former employer holds a bonafide future job open for you or not. If he/she does not then your application is not valid in your circumstances from what I know.
If you get a letter from him/her then that should be adequate, however you will also need to start work with that employer for a reasonable time afterward to be within the law.
If as you say the intent has to be there at the time of filing, then it would be easy for everyone to intend whatever the needed at the time of filing and then change their minds. It does not work that way.
The revocation of the 140 would not have been a problem if it happened after the 180 days, but would be an issue now.
I can see you are in a difficult spot. I would definitely suggest you stay honest, since they have all of your filing records etc. and if you fudge it, your petition can be denied for fraud, which could harm future applications.
Rather than relying on the advise here, you should seek out a good attorney experienced in AC21.
I do not think what you are saying is correct. Ac21 does not allow you to leave before 180 days of your 485 filing.
Have you read the USCIS question? If not, read few times to understand how your interpretation is wrong.
Question 10. Should service centers or district offices deny portability cases on the sole basis that the alien has left his or her employment with the I-140 petitioner prior to the I-485 application pending for 180 days?
Answer: No. The basis for adjustment is not actual (current) employment but prospective employment. Since there is no requirement that the alien have ever been employed by the petitioner while the I-140 and/or I-485 was pending, the fact that an alien left the I-140 petitioner before the I-485 has been pending 180 days will not necessarily render the alien ineligible to port. However, in all cases an offer of employment must have been bona fide. This means that, as of the time the I-140 was filed and at the time of filing the I-485 if not filed concurrently, the I-140 petitioner must have had the intent to employ the beneficiary, and the alien must have intended to undertake the employment, upon adjustment. Adjudicators should not presume absence of such intent and may take the I-140 and supporting documents themselves as prima facie evidence of such intent, but in appropriate cases additional evidence or investigation may be appropriate.
The bottom line is if his approved 140 is not revoked with in 180 days of filing the 485, his 485 is still valid even if ported the job with in a month after filing 485.
The RFE is trying to determine whether your former employer holds a bonafide future job open for you or not. If he/she does not then your application is not valid in your circumstances from what I know.
If you get a letter from him/her then that should be adequate, however you will also need to start work with that employer for a reasonable time afterward to be within the law.
If as you say the intent has to be there at the time of filing, then it would be easy for everyone to intend whatever the needed at the time of filing and then change their minds. It does not work that way.
The revocation of the 140 would not have been a problem if it happened after the 180 days, but would be an issue now.
I can see you are in a difficult spot. I would definitely suggest you stay honest, since they have all of your filing records etc. and if you fudge it, your petition can be denied for fraud, which could harm future applications.
Rather than relying on the advise here, you should seek out a good attorney experienced in AC21.
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pitha
01-30 03:20 PM
I believe it is also illegal to work before getting a social security number. When you are on H4 you dont have a social security number (you have an itin which is not good enough for working). You will not get a social security number unless you have work authorization (i797). H1 will start only after october 1, so you can apply for social security number only after October 1 (i.e if you have i 797), it will take you about 4 to 7 weeks to get ssn. You can work only after getting the ssn. Somebody correct me if i wrong here.
One more thing about desi companies.
When you go from H4 to H1 or F1 to H1, you are legally allowed to work for your sponsor only after H1 approval (I-797) comes, not after the receipt notice comes. When you transfer H1s from company A to company B, you can start working as soon as the receipt notice for transfer petition is received. That is the law.
Now, since our dear desi employers are known to be greedy and also known to be comfortable in bending, breaking or ignoring the law, once they file for your H4 to H1 transfer, they would want you to start working right away. Forget about waiting for H1 approval notice, they are unlikely to wait even for the receipt notice. It would be illegal to work on H4 even if you have the receipt notice in your hands for H4 to H1 transfer.
However, they would want you to work, so that you can start generating the revenue for the company. (hey, it costs money to do your transfer and money doesnt grow on trees). And who's gonna know. Once you are a willing participant in this, you are not going to report it, they are not going to report it and the client (your project location) would not even know the difference between H1 and H4. And ICE has its hands full in busting illegals working in meat packing plants.
Now, that is not all. In order to cover up the fact that you were working (and on their payroll) while in H4 without waiting for H1 approval, they may pay you in checks other than payroll checks. Either as an expense check or something else(cash, money order etc). There is another law they are breaking in the process of covering up the immigration law violation. The tax laws. By not paying you on a regular payroll, they cannot deduct your income tax and the employer's payroll tax. So it would be "Off the books".
Anyways, clarify with them that you will not work until you see the original approval of I-797 in your hands. That way, you wont be dragged into this mud.
-------------------------------------------
PS
I am not advocating that anyone break any laws. I am just stating what I have known from this industry and the usual practices so that people can avoid getting into situations where they unknowingly break the laws due to their employers' greed. Also, I am not denigrating Desis or desi companies, I am myself an Indian.
One more thing about desi companies.
When you go from H4 to H1 or F1 to H1, you are legally allowed to work for your sponsor only after H1 approval (I-797) comes, not after the receipt notice comes. When you transfer H1s from company A to company B, you can start working as soon as the receipt notice for transfer petition is received. That is the law.
Now, since our dear desi employers are known to be greedy and also known to be comfortable in bending, breaking or ignoring the law, once they file for your H4 to H1 transfer, they would want you to start working right away. Forget about waiting for H1 approval notice, they are unlikely to wait even for the receipt notice. It would be illegal to work on H4 even if you have the receipt notice in your hands for H4 to H1 transfer.
However, they would want you to work, so that you can start generating the revenue for the company. (hey, it costs money to do your transfer and money doesnt grow on trees). And who's gonna know. Once you are a willing participant in this, you are not going to report it, they are not going to report it and the client (your project location) would not even know the difference between H1 and H4. And ICE has its hands full in busting illegals working in meat packing plants.
Now, that is not all. In order to cover up the fact that you were working (and on their payroll) while in H4 without waiting for H1 approval, they may pay you in checks other than payroll checks. Either as an expense check or something else(cash, money order etc). There is another law they are breaking in the process of covering up the immigration law violation. The tax laws. By not paying you on a regular payroll, they cannot deduct your income tax and the employer's payroll tax. So it would be "Off the books".
Anyways, clarify with them that you will not work until you see the original approval of I-797 in your hands. That way, you wont be dragged into this mud.
-------------------------------------------
PS
I am not advocating that anyone break any laws. I am just stating what I have known from this industry and the usual practices so that people can avoid getting into situations where they unknowingly break the laws due to their employers' greed. Also, I am not denigrating Desis or desi companies, I am myself an Indian.
thepaew
05-12 03:00 PM
You might want to research your options some more. Maybe, have a talk with someone who is a more senior colleague or mentor, preferably one who has an MBA.
It appears from your comment on investment banking that you haven't done your research. IBs usually recruit only from the top-10 type schools.
Good Luck!
Also, what kind of disciplines we should check in an MBA..I dont know if MBA finance will be good..as such I have no preferences. (anything related to Investment banking etc will be good though)
It appears from your comment on investment banking that you haven't done your research. IBs usually recruit only from the top-10 type schools.
Good Luck!
Also, what kind of disciplines we should check in an MBA..I dont know if MBA finance will be good..as such I have no preferences. (anything related to Investment banking etc will be good though)
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rockstart
03-12 08:36 AM
To be able to use the AC21, should the I-140 be already approved for 180 days or more?
No its 180 days since receipt date. It is safe that your I40 be approved but not necessary. The other condition is you are working in same/ similar job profile and you are getting wages equal or higher than what is mentioned in your LCA.
No its 180 days since receipt date. It is safe that your I40 be approved but not necessary. The other condition is you are working in same/ similar job profile and you are getting wages equal or higher than what is mentioned in your LCA.
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Jaime
09-10 12:15 PM
You have contributed 1000s of dollars to Social Security and if you don't fight for it, anti-immigrants will kick you out of the U.S. by frustrating you to the limit, and your Social Security money will go to fund Lou Dobb's retirement and that of others, except yours!
indianabacklog
04-07 09:53 AM
From a logical perspective how many people arrive on flights which just happen to arrive during regular business hours so employers can be contacted?? Even if you do arrive in the middle of the day the chances are the phone would not be manned at that precise moment the POE officer chooses to call.
If there would be any doubt the POE officer would pass the individual onto secondary inspection for them to take care of things.
Another observation, why are H1B holders in line in front of green card holders. Did the green card holders just happen to want to join the long line or did the visa holder decide they could go in the short line at immigration?
Just some thoughts after reading these sort of posts.
Another one, how on earth does an employer know that there is a US citizen that could do the job spontaneously when the POE officer just happened to call them???
Until I see a real story that can be verified I doubt what I am reading is true.
If there would be any doubt the POE officer would pass the individual onto secondary inspection for them to take care of things.
Another observation, why are H1B holders in line in front of green card holders. Did the green card holders just happen to want to join the long line or did the visa holder decide they could go in the short line at immigration?
Just some thoughts after reading these sort of posts.
Another one, how on earth does an employer know that there is a US citizen that could do the job spontaneously when the POE officer just happened to call them???
Until I see a real story that can be verified I doubt what I am reading is true.
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svr_76
06-10 01:38 PM
@eastindia: I doubt if that 's required - "Basically a letter from employer". You definitely include your I-485 notice that shows that a AOS in pending.
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laborchic
09-19 01:12 PM
First, I would like to congratulate everyone who contributed to the success of the DC rally on Sep 18, 2007...
I was there and I am proud of our ImmigrationVoice members for this FANTASTIC effort!
We are just starting and taking baby steps with these kind of activities...So, anything I mention below is not a critic, but a humble feedback/opinion...Please don't get offended.
1. We must immediately change our name to LegalImmigrationVoice.org( LIV.org)...But still Immigrationvoice.org should work....This should be done ASAP...like within next week...Please conduct a poll for this ASAP.
2. We must/should always wear formal suits for these kind of rally....this would definitely give us a very high status and definitely there will not be any confusion if the rally is by legal or illegal immigrants. Even if it is hot summer, we must stick to this dress code...
3. In all the signs we had today, we need to have one line clearly in bold as "Legal Immigrants - LegalImmigrationVoice.com - Faster Green cards for Legal highly skilled Immigrants" - bold and clear..
Also, all our T-shirts should have
"Legal Immigrants - LegalImmigrationVoice.com - Faster Green cards for Legal highly skilled Immigrants" in the back
4. One of the rally participants told me that a guide was telling a tourists bus passengers quote "these folks are illegal immigrants...", the rally participant who heard this went to the guide and explained that we are legal immigrants...if you think the guide is not smart enough to read our signs and understand that we are legal immigrants, read next point...
5. On the rally route, one gentleman, who was dressed in suit, looked well educated came up to me and asked what we are concerned about...I told him that green card process for Legal Immigrants is taking between 5-10 years and we are requesting to expedite it.....so it is clear that all our signs need this text at the bottom "Legal Immigrants - LegalImmigrationVoice.com - Faster Green cards for Legal highly skilled Immigrants"
We cannot be perfect the first or second time....Lets learn from this rally....
A pat in the back to all those who attended the rally....
Good Luck
RNGC: I just realised this morning that it was you with whom I was discussing all these issues last morning. Great going Sir.... I totally agree with you..
I was there and I am proud of our ImmigrationVoice members for this FANTASTIC effort!
We are just starting and taking baby steps with these kind of activities...So, anything I mention below is not a critic, but a humble feedback/opinion...Please don't get offended.
1. We must immediately change our name to LegalImmigrationVoice.org( LIV.org)...But still Immigrationvoice.org should work....This should be done ASAP...like within next week...Please conduct a poll for this ASAP.
2. We must/should always wear formal suits for these kind of rally....this would definitely give us a very high status and definitely there will not be any confusion if the rally is by legal or illegal immigrants. Even if it is hot summer, we must stick to this dress code...
3. In all the signs we had today, we need to have one line clearly in bold as "Legal Immigrants - LegalImmigrationVoice.com - Faster Green cards for Legal highly skilled Immigrants" - bold and clear..
Also, all our T-shirts should have
"Legal Immigrants - LegalImmigrationVoice.com - Faster Green cards for Legal highly skilled Immigrants" in the back
4. One of the rally participants told me that a guide was telling a tourists bus passengers quote "these folks are illegal immigrants...", the rally participant who heard this went to the guide and explained that we are legal immigrants...if you think the guide is not smart enough to read our signs and understand that we are legal immigrants, read next point...
5. On the rally route, one gentleman, who was dressed in suit, looked well educated came up to me and asked what we are concerned about...I told him that green card process for Legal Immigrants is taking between 5-10 years and we are requesting to expedite it.....so it is clear that all our signs need this text at the bottom "Legal Immigrants - LegalImmigrationVoice.com - Faster Green cards for Legal highly skilled Immigrants"
We cannot be perfect the first or second time....Lets learn from this rally....
A pat in the back to all those who attended the rally....
Good Luck
RNGC: I just realised this morning that it was you with whom I was discussing all these issues last morning. Great going Sir.... I totally agree with you..
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srkamath
07-12 03:40 PM
I'm killing my own joy here...... the Aug Bulletin says
"Consular officers are required to report to the Department of State documentarily qualified applicants for numerically limited visas; the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services in the Department of Homeland Security reports applicants for adjustment of status."
Documentarily Qualified (DQ'd)
USCIS and Consulates submitted a list of Documentarily Qualified applicants to DOS on July 8th. The latest PD of the applicants on that list was before 01-June therefore they have set the PD at 01-June-2006.
What is documentarily qualified?
"Consular officers are required to report to the Department of State documentarily qualified applicants for numerically limited visas; the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services in the Department of Homeland Security reports applicants for adjustment of status."
Documentarily Qualified (DQ'd)
USCIS and Consulates submitted a list of Documentarily Qualified applicants to DOS on July 8th. The latest PD of the applicants on that list was before 01-June therefore they have set the PD at 01-June-2006.
What is documentarily qualified?
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sidbee
03-12 10:20 AM
IV needs to OPEN ITS BOOKS
And show DONORS where their money is going? Where is the sponsors money going? and what is this ORGANIZATION planning to do. IF not, one these days they will find themselves in a audit and public scrutiny.
Any yes people who says open your eyes? Have you got your GC? EAD is only a means and not the destination
PAPU, you need to explain to all IV members and disclose the books and what you are doing as IV head, and dont give me the bull, of we are working, you want our support, we want clarity and real action.
If this happens, i would like to donate to IV.
I cannot trust anyone blindly, thats my problem.
And show DONORS where their money is going? Where is the sponsors money going? and what is this ORGANIZATION planning to do. IF not, one these days they will find themselves in a audit and public scrutiny.
Any yes people who says open your eyes? Have you got your GC? EAD is only a means and not the destination
PAPU, you need to explain to all IV members and disclose the books and what you are doing as IV head, and dont give me the bull, of we are working, you want our support, we want clarity and real action.
If this happens, i would like to donate to IV.
I cannot trust anyone blindly, thats my problem.
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prioritydate
12-20 03:59 PM
Folks, I didn't worked for an year(2001) due to, you know what I am saying....
Now I am afraid that I would get an RFE because of that. Do you think that I need to worry about it? :(
Now I am afraid that I would get an RFE because of that. Do you think that I need to worry about it? :(
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Jaime
09-11 05:26 PM
You've worked hard for what you have! VERY HARD!!!! Remember the grueling exams and study back home to be the best and get to the U.S. Remember your sufferin, hard study and hard work once in the U.S. to be the best and contribute to this country!
Don't let the Reverse Brain Drain suck you in!!!!
Don't let the Reverse Brain Drain suck you in!!!!
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survu
06-20 02:20 PM
Got GC for me and for my wife.
It was a long frustrating wait time.I am glad its over now. My best wishes to those that are still waiting.
No RFE at any stage, straight forward case, one time took infopass to just find out the status. Total Wait time 5 and half years.
Here are the dates:
I received the card order production mail on 9 June 2008.
Received the welcome letter on 13th June.2008
Received the Card on 16th June.
PD: June 2001 - EB2- India
I 484 applied on 28 th June 2007 - NSC.
Finger print on Aug 26 th. 2007- NSC.
Sep 26 Got EAD. 2007 - NSC.
Original Labor - Sep 2002, Approved in 2006
Labor substitution on May 1st week. 2007 - NSC.
140 approved on May 2nd week. 2007
Joined fulltime April 3rd week, 2008. New employer applied H1 and received.
I have not sent AC21 letter.
No LUD after finger print.
GC Card received- 16 June 2008, me and spouse.
Thanks,
It was a long frustrating wait time.I am glad its over now. My best wishes to those that are still waiting.
No RFE at any stage, straight forward case, one time took infopass to just find out the status. Total Wait time 5 and half years.
Here are the dates:
I received the card order production mail on 9 June 2008.
Received the welcome letter on 13th June.2008
Received the Card on 16th June.
PD: June 2001 - EB2- India
I 484 applied on 28 th June 2007 - NSC.
Finger print on Aug 26 th. 2007- NSC.
Sep 26 Got EAD. 2007 - NSC.
Original Labor - Sep 2002, Approved in 2006
Labor substitution on May 1st week. 2007 - NSC.
140 approved on May 2nd week. 2007
Joined fulltime April 3rd week, 2008. New employer applied H1 and received.
I have not sent AC21 letter.
No LUD after finger print.
GC Card received- 16 June 2008, me and spouse.
Thanks,
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sriwaitingforgc
09-10 02:25 PM
They went at EST and back at PST:D
Good one :-)
Good one :-)
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raj2007
12-20 08:33 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Logiclife. I enter U.S in the first week of Feb, 2001. The economy was bad and I didn't manage to get a job. In fact, I didn't managed to get a job for a year. My then employer didn't revoked my H1B and the I-94 was valid until Oct, 2002. I didn't know that I was out of status till now. I don't remember seeing any section in I-485 form, asking for information about out of status. I did attach my previous H1-B approval notice(2000 -2002) while filing I-485. One thing I want to know is, did anyone got a query(RFE), asking to provide all W2 forms since their entry into this country? I am interested to know that.
You are OK.. they problem should have come in 2002 when you changed ur H1B not now and max they will ask for 3 year W2. Don't worry..everything is fine.
You are OK.. they problem should have come in 2002 when you changed ur H1B not now and max they will ask for 3 year W2. Don't worry..everything is fine.
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GCNirvana007
10-10 09:55 PM
It is unreasonable to carry a passport at all times when you are living here. What happens if you leave it behind in the grocery store by mistake or leave it in the cab or something? I think the issue reported by the OP is more relevant close to the border. Nobody asks for your passport in Vegas or Denver.
Which part you didnt understand?
Once you enter USA, doesnt matter Vegas or Denver, you need to carry documents with you. Thats LAW. They dont stop everybody but if they do, we are answerable to them.
Its similar to speeding. For a 55 miles speed limit, usually cops dont stop if you drive 70. However they are legally entitled to fine you if you drive 56. Its LAW.
Now if you leave it by mistake, thats not their problem, you got to deal with it.
Which part you didnt understand?
Once you enter USA, doesnt matter Vegas or Denver, you need to carry documents with you. Thats LAW. They dont stop everybody but if they do, we are answerable to them.
Its similar to speeding. For a 55 miles speed limit, usually cops dont stop if you drive 70. However they are legally entitled to fine you if you drive 56. Its LAW.
Now if you leave it by mistake, thats not their problem, you got to deal with it.
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sri1309
09-10 06:27 PM
Actually even the Brits. have a rule in their immigration process stating that if you have spent a total of 10 yrs in that country, that alone is a basis for a PR card there. Citizenship is another 1 yr after that(there is currently some debate about making it 2 mainly over spousal PR cards). This rule is based on the premise that if you have been part of the society for that length of time then you have contributed sufficiently to warrant peership. So by this score, many of those who posted that they have been here since earlier than 1999 would have been eligible even absent the employers assistance.
Given that we have been tax paying, law abiding and patiently waiting through a bureaucratic system that has to date not approved 500K visas that they could have, we have a legitimate grouse to any fair minded person. We have contributed tremendously through our purchasing power and in many other ways to this economy.
As it stands however the system is mainly screwing EB India. Ideally they should start up a Country caps for H1b visas also. Only then will the foolishness of per country quotas for EMPLOYMENT BASED immigration be fully apparent. I see potentially another example of this "managed overflow" system at work here.
It seems likely on the Oct. VB that EB3 ROW would have been afforded a much more generous PD than EB2I. Based on the USCIS's assertion that henceforth spillover will be horizontal before vertical, the presumption can then be that EB3ROW would basically be limited to 28% of 140K, on that basis and recent retrogression for EB3ROW, those numbers should be used up rapidly. I'll bet that this will not happen. A whole lot of "managing" is going on.
I see good response to Citizenship slogan in this short time frame. THATS what we deserve guys after this much screwup.
Also understand there are so many many fully frustrated and screwed up by these delays unable to take it anymore and left the country. They are not typing here, but they took the shots. They too dont deserve this. Remember how thrilled we felt when we first got the Visa(whoever you are). If we all voice together for this, I am very sure it can work.
Lets push for a new rule 3+ years GC, 8+ years Citizenship. We shouldnt be paying for other's disservice. But lets hold on this till 5882 passes or fails.. In any case, we must be pushing for this.
Given that we have been tax paying, law abiding and patiently waiting through a bureaucratic system that has to date not approved 500K visas that they could have, we have a legitimate grouse to any fair minded person. We have contributed tremendously through our purchasing power and in many other ways to this economy.
As it stands however the system is mainly screwing EB India. Ideally they should start up a Country caps for H1b visas also. Only then will the foolishness of per country quotas for EMPLOYMENT BASED immigration be fully apparent. I see potentially another example of this "managed overflow" system at work here.
It seems likely on the Oct. VB that EB3 ROW would have been afforded a much more generous PD than EB2I. Based on the USCIS's assertion that henceforth spillover will be horizontal before vertical, the presumption can then be that EB3ROW would basically be limited to 28% of 140K, on that basis and recent retrogression for EB3ROW, those numbers should be used up rapidly. I'll bet that this will not happen. A whole lot of "managing" is going on.
I see good response to Citizenship slogan in this short time frame. THATS what we deserve guys after this much screwup.
Also understand there are so many many fully frustrated and screwed up by these delays unable to take it anymore and left the country. They are not typing here, but they took the shots. They too dont deserve this. Remember how thrilled we felt when we first got the Visa(whoever you are). If we all voice together for this, I am very sure it can work.
Lets push for a new rule 3+ years GC, 8+ years Citizenship. We shouldnt be paying for other's disservice. But lets hold on this till 5882 passes or fails.. In any case, we must be pushing for this.
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StarSun
02-17 09:50 AM
Who is IV?
You and I = WE.
You and I = WE.
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nomi
12-11 02:54 PM
Does anybody know who do we need to contact in USCIS about this rule making policy or ask them to consider this option. I hope there should be some department or office in USCIS who make all these rules. I think we should contact them and ask them what are our options here.
thx.
thx.
GCOP
10-15 01:04 PM
Flowers can work this time also. Any/All suggestions, which help to pass the visa recapture bill are most welcome. I think, right time to start any campaign would be after election. In the meantime, we can utilize this time to come up with firm action plan. IV core team is requested to decide the course of action and declare the action plan.
Guys,
I think this is a time to start another flower campaign to USCIS. It is ridiculuous to have 7 years of retrogression on EB3 India, same is true to good extend for EB2 India also.
Guys,
I think this is a time to start another flower campaign to USCIS. It is ridiculuous to have 7 years of retrogression on EB3 India, same is true to good extend for EB2 India also.
rajuram
01-28 12:19 PM
thanks for your reply and clarifications. what you say is correct. I would like to request that if there are regular "positive" posts by the core group in public forums, then it will go a long way in keeping our community motivated.
i hear a lot of complaints from you and i do understand your frustration.
i also seem to realize that you want a lot and are holding on to anything you might give in return.
work like lobbying is done in the background- and you seem to know that. it is not the time to send web faxes. last time an update came there was a war here, and there has been an iv newsletter in the new year. unnecessary information provided publicly can backfire on us in the worst way possible. incidentally you are further wrong- lawmaker contacts are taking place and updates are being given- in the state chapters. repeatedly, members have been begged top join a state chapter, or if one does not exist, to help start it. have you joined one? i humbly suggest you do. you may see a lot more action there- and maybe actually do something, rather than constantly whining here that no one is updating you. in our state chapter teleconference an iv core member updated us. subsequently another core member has posted mails on the group with advice and suggestions and resources.
i hate writing posts like this or even responding to posts like this. please understand that people like me who are trying to get things moving are as frustrated as you are, because we can't get enough support.
we are not iv core. and they have full time jobs and families. still, they are traveling, contacting lawmakers, helping and updating state chapters and coordinating with lobbyists and friendly organizations, getting prepared for upcoming legislative action.
if your $20 is dependent on their making more time for you, WITHOUT you making any time for iv except to complain, then maybe it's best in your pocket. you seem to forget, and i have said this before, it's not iv as an organization that will derive any benefit from the money- it is YOU and ME and EVERY OTHER PERSON STUCK IN RETROGRESSION.
so please help yourself. this is not a free lunch. if your money is so valuable, make time. but do something- add members - and then, your complaints will begin to have some legitimacy in other's eyes. if you are doing all these things already, i apologize- but i doubt it- you would be complaining less once you understood how hard it really is to move people off their butts.
enough said and thanks for reading.
i hear a lot of complaints from you and i do understand your frustration.
i also seem to realize that you want a lot and are holding on to anything you might give in return.
work like lobbying is done in the background- and you seem to know that. it is not the time to send web faxes. last time an update came there was a war here, and there has been an iv newsletter in the new year. unnecessary information provided publicly can backfire on us in the worst way possible. incidentally you are further wrong- lawmaker contacts are taking place and updates are being given- in the state chapters. repeatedly, members have been begged top join a state chapter, or if one does not exist, to help start it. have you joined one? i humbly suggest you do. you may see a lot more action there- and maybe actually do something, rather than constantly whining here that no one is updating you. in our state chapter teleconference an iv core member updated us. subsequently another core member has posted mails on the group with advice and suggestions and resources.
i hate writing posts like this or even responding to posts like this. please understand that people like me who are trying to get things moving are as frustrated as you are, because we can't get enough support.
we are not iv core. and they have full time jobs and families. still, they are traveling, contacting lawmakers, helping and updating state chapters and coordinating with lobbyists and friendly organizations, getting prepared for upcoming legislative action.
if your $20 is dependent on their making more time for you, WITHOUT you making any time for iv except to complain, then maybe it's best in your pocket. you seem to forget, and i have said this before, it's not iv as an organization that will derive any benefit from the money- it is YOU and ME and EVERY OTHER PERSON STUCK IN RETROGRESSION.
so please help yourself. this is not a free lunch. if your money is so valuable, make time. but do something- add members - and then, your complaints will begin to have some legitimacy in other's eyes. if you are doing all these things already, i apologize- but i doubt it- you would be complaining less once you understood how hard it really is to move people off their butts.
enough said and thanks for reading.
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