Macaca
01-28 04:53 PM
USCIS was trying to abolish this substitution. The lawyer lobby opposed it.
How do lawyers benefit from it? Thanks.
How do lawyers benefit from it? Thanks.
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snthampi
07-30 05:12 PM
Fake to you because you never had such a chance or courage in life. :D
But this dude is a hero.
This gives others a good idea. Instead of saying NO to Amway guys, people will start flirting with both the e-commerce idea and wife. The Amway guy will now have to decide between making money and his wife.
Well, I never had this type of GOLDEN chances. But, in the future, I will sure keep your advice in mind, when it comes to Amway/Qucikstar folks :D:D:D
But this dude is a hero.
This gives others a good idea. Instead of saying NO to Amway guys, people will start flirting with both the e-commerce idea and wife. The Amway guy will now have to decide between making money and his wife.
Well, I never had this type of GOLDEN chances. But, in the future, I will sure keep your advice in mind, when it comes to Amway/Qucikstar folks :D:D:D
admin
02-06 09:35 AM
Here is a report from immigration-law.com
02/05/2006: DOL Resummitted and Obtained OMB Clearance of Proposed Labor Substitution Elimination Regulation on 02/02/2006
* This DOL and DHS proposed rule was cleared by the OMB last fall, but for unknown reasons, it has been pushed off. However, on February 2, 2006, Thursday, ETA/DOL resummitted the proposed rule and on the same day, the OMB cleared again this regulation. It is unknown at this time exactly when the DOL will publish this critical regulation but considering the fact that it reinstated the rule-making process as late as three days back, something must be cooking this time. Please stay tuned.
Great news, especially given that most of the body shoppers were using it for fraud. Also this would make it easier for USCIS to predict the actual usage of Visa numbers and thus move the PDs accurately.
02/05/2006: DOL Resummitted and Obtained OMB Clearance of Proposed Labor Substitution Elimination Regulation on 02/02/2006
* This DOL and DHS proposed rule was cleared by the OMB last fall, but for unknown reasons, it has been pushed off. However, on February 2, 2006, Thursday, ETA/DOL resummitted the proposed rule and on the same day, the OMB cleared again this regulation. It is unknown at this time exactly when the DOL will publish this critical regulation but considering the fact that it reinstated the rule-making process as late as three days back, something must be cooking this time. Please stay tuned.
Great news, especially given that most of the body shoppers were using it for fraud. Also this would make it easier for USCIS to predict the actual usage of Visa numbers and thus move the PDs accurately.
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riva2005
03-16 01:05 PM
There are many more Nick Mandallapas out there selling labor certs to highest bidders for GC.
Nick Mandallapa went to prison, but others are still out there doing it coz most likely, the Dept of labor is not equipped to catch all the labor sales.
Nick Mandallapa went to prison, but others are still out there doing it coz most likely, the Dept of labor is not equipped to catch all the labor sales.
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sath2000
07-17 04:33 PM
Hi,
Here is my issue regarding the PD.
My Employer applied for labor through RIR under EB2 March6th 2004 which was then transffered to Philadelphia Backlog Center. Our Attorney suggested that we Apply through PERM process and Retain PD from the old case. Converted to PERM and applied on 09/26/2006 which was approved on 12/29/2006 but the letter said that they are not retaining PD from the old application as address is changed. Our employer moved 1 street accross in between these to application in Feb 2006. only street address changed everything including phone number remained same. My attorney said that he talked to the labor department in Chicago telling them that phone number didn't change. They said they will consider it and asked him to send a letter. It has been over 15 months he send the first letter. He said last month he also received a call from chicago office saying that they will take a look at the files.
In the meantime applied for I-140 and I-485 concurrently in July/Aug 2007. I-140 got approved on 05/28/2008 and got RFE for I-485 on 06/13/2008. responded to RFE and now case process resumed.
At this point I am trying to see if anyone have this kinda of issue and got resolved or there is away to get this resolved.
thank you
Here is my issue regarding the PD.
My Employer applied for labor through RIR under EB2 March6th 2004 which was then transffered to Philadelphia Backlog Center. Our Attorney suggested that we Apply through PERM process and Retain PD from the old case. Converted to PERM and applied on 09/26/2006 which was approved on 12/29/2006 but the letter said that they are not retaining PD from the old application as address is changed. Our employer moved 1 street accross in between these to application in Feb 2006. only street address changed everything including phone number remained same. My attorney said that he talked to the labor department in Chicago telling them that phone number didn't change. They said they will consider it and asked him to send a letter. It has been over 15 months he send the first letter. He said last month he also received a call from chicago office saying that they will take a look at the files.
In the meantime applied for I-140 and I-485 concurrently in July/Aug 2007. I-140 got approved on 05/28/2008 and got RFE for I-485 on 06/13/2008. responded to RFE and now case process resumed.
At this point I am trying to see if anyone have this kinda of issue and got resolved or there is away to get this resolved.
thank you
deafTunes123
07-27 08:04 AM
One basic note that Amway/Quixstar guys/preachers/creatures should understand is that "Not every business/job is for every one".
Few individuals can do only certain kinds of jobs. However, I notice that these Amway/Quixtar guys always project that, any dumbo can do this business (if followed rules). And also, they project that this is the only way earn money on this planet. If some one follows their own path (own ambitions), then they think that he/she is an idiot that they not joining them. For God's sake, Amway guys don't bug people. When some one said no means, Its NO. don't put pressure on strangers.
I will tell you my experience/observations with most of the Amway/Quixtar guys that I met.
1. They dream of early retirement, free money, free cruise trip, free vacations etc., where as in reality, they don't even buy good TV for them selves. I know few folks who purchased a 18 inches bathroom tv for $5.00. I am not against second hand a TV for less, but check the reality and see the difference between dreams and reality.
2. Forget about TV, it may not be an essential in life for everyone. I also noticed that they don't even purchase proper food/groceries. May be not are alike. I have see many in my past 15 years of life in US either in Bayarea or in Texas or in PA.
3. There was a Quixtar/Amway Summer conference few of years ago. I have seen 32 adult people stayed in a Single bedroom apartment (around 700 Sq Ft) for two nights. Yes, I literally counted people coming out of the door (right opposite to my apartment). I couldn't believe my eyes/brain initially but its truth.
I am not offending any one intentionally, but know the difference between reality and dreams.
Few individuals can do only certain kinds of jobs. However, I notice that these Amway/Quixtar guys always project that, any dumbo can do this business (if followed rules). And also, they project that this is the only way earn money on this planet. If some one follows their own path (own ambitions), then they think that he/she is an idiot that they not joining them. For God's sake, Amway guys don't bug people. When some one said no means, Its NO. don't put pressure on strangers.
I will tell you my experience/observations with most of the Amway/Quixtar guys that I met.
1. They dream of early retirement, free money, free cruise trip, free vacations etc., where as in reality, they don't even buy good TV for them selves. I know few folks who purchased a 18 inches bathroom tv for $5.00. I am not against second hand a TV for less, but check the reality and see the difference between dreams and reality.
2. Forget about TV, it may not be an essential in life for everyone. I also noticed that they don't even purchase proper food/groceries. May be not are alike. I have see many in my past 15 years of life in US either in Bayarea or in Texas or in PA.
3. There was a Quixtar/Amway Summer conference few of years ago. I have seen 32 adult people stayed in a Single bedroom apartment (around 700 Sq Ft) for two nights. Yes, I literally counted people coming out of the door (right opposite to my apartment). I couldn't believe my eyes/brain initially but its truth.
I am not offending any one intentionally, but know the difference between reality and dreams.
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Macaca
06-28 08:09 PM
but if USCIS knew this (that June+July can finish all the numbers for 2007) then why does the visa bulletin talk about retrogression in September timeframe for India/China? Why not August itself?
That is why I (and my lawyer) expected dates to continue in July + Aug. I actually expected USCIS to continue and use 2008 quota and start retrogressing in Nov 2007.
My analysis is based on info in Ombudsman report. May be there is more stuff! May be something changed! May be they did not have # of adj applicants.
We can complain to Ombudsman!
That is why I (and my lawyer) expected dates to continue in July + Aug. I actually expected USCIS to continue and use 2008 quota and start retrogressing in Nov 2007.
My analysis is based on info in Ombudsman report. May be there is more stuff! May be something changed! May be they did not have # of adj applicants.
We can complain to Ombudsman!
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chintu25
02-13 10:14 AM
I agree with some senior members when they say that no one individual will come forward for the lawsuit . And I ask why should they ??
And I think, even if one single or 2-3 people do come forward it will not be possible.
This is the reason we have forums like our IV so that all can come together and take a decisive step together .
Who can stop IV to file a lawsuit USCIS ? NO ONE
Many members went on blabbering about how long the process is and how expensive it is ... REMINDER if we can come together and collect upwards of 35k FOR "Lobbying Efforts" we can definitely collect funds for a lawsuit.
Some one here rightly said ...If we are retrogessed and there is a queue ..Is it because of you or me NO it is due to the inefficiency of the USCIS.
NO ROAD IS EASY IN THIS BATTLE..... AND ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE EXPLORED
Again , I want to reiterate , I think if IV core takes lead...hires a good attorney ....we will have funds for it....we have proved it in the past that IVians can contribute
And I think, even if one single or 2-3 people do come forward it will not be possible.
This is the reason we have forums like our IV so that all can come together and take a decisive step together .
Who can stop IV to file a lawsuit USCIS ? NO ONE
Many members went on blabbering about how long the process is and how expensive it is ... REMINDER if we can come together and collect upwards of 35k FOR "Lobbying Efforts" we can definitely collect funds for a lawsuit.
Some one here rightly said ...If we are retrogessed and there is a queue ..Is it because of you or me NO it is due to the inefficiency of the USCIS.
NO ROAD IS EASY IN THIS BATTLE..... AND ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE EXPLORED
Again , I want to reiterate , I think if IV core takes lead...hires a good attorney ....we will have funds for it....we have proved it in the past that IVians can contribute
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ita
04-15 08:15 PM
I remember reading last year a kid who posted something about why he doesn't like Saino was nabbed by cyber crime team near Delhi.Don't know what happened to him after that.
Also I read about Chetan Kunte in the NDTV-Mumbai issue.
CEC Gopalaswami said that Navin Chawla one of the EC always runs to loo breaks when they are in the middle of important decision making which may have not so good effect on a certain party and by the time Navin Chawla came back from loo break there would be a call from Congress party trying to pressurize the decision of Election commission.
I read somewhere Rahul Gandhi during Boston arrest was rescued by Saino men in Vajpayee govt.
Navin Chawla will most probably succeed Gopala Swami when he retires this month.
Of course we all know about our honorable president (with due respect to her ,her body language looks like I'm sorry madam I'm sitting on a sofa in front of you when I should be by your feet ,when she's around Sonia Gandhi)
Looks like this family has bought men all over the place.Now makes sense where all the scam money (be it oil scam or missile scam) goes.
No wonder Varun Gandhi's issue was made such a big controversy even when nothing was proved.
Kapil Sibal wanted to pull a Varun Gandhi stunt with Modi and Modi's response is hilarious.
"To Union Minister Kapil Sibal’s remarks that Mr. Modi should be arrested for his rabid remarks, he said: “You have my address and you are free to arrest me anytime, if you have the guts.” “The jail that could keep me in is yet to be built in India,” he said.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/15/stories/2009041561271300.htm
Disclaimer:All the facts on this post are not my personal views but have been raised by politicians,journalists,officials which I found them on the internet while surfing.
Also I read about Chetan Kunte in the NDTV-Mumbai issue.
CEC Gopalaswami said that Navin Chawla one of the EC always runs to loo breaks when they are in the middle of important decision making which may have not so good effect on a certain party and by the time Navin Chawla came back from loo break there would be a call from Congress party trying to pressurize the decision of Election commission.
I read somewhere Rahul Gandhi during Boston arrest was rescued by Saino men in Vajpayee govt.
Navin Chawla will most probably succeed Gopala Swami when he retires this month.
Of course we all know about our honorable president (with due respect to her ,her body language looks like I'm sorry madam I'm sitting on a sofa in front of you when I should be by your feet ,when she's around Sonia Gandhi)
Looks like this family has bought men all over the place.Now makes sense where all the scam money (be it oil scam or missile scam) goes.
No wonder Varun Gandhi's issue was made such a big controversy even when nothing was proved.
Kapil Sibal wanted to pull a Varun Gandhi stunt with Modi and Modi's response is hilarious.
"To Union Minister Kapil Sibal’s remarks that Mr. Modi should be arrested for his rabid remarks, he said: “You have my address and you are free to arrest me anytime, if you have the guts.” “The jail that could keep me in is yet to be built in India,” he said.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/15/stories/2009041561271300.htm
Disclaimer:All the facts on this post are not my personal views but have been raised by politicians,journalists,officials which I found them on the internet while surfing.
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mirage
07-04 08:21 AM
One thing which is missing in the News article about this fiasco is they are sounding like some precedural hitch happened they are not sounding scandal, conspiratory, I mean their title should be like 'DOS plays joke on Legals', 'DOS arbitrary decisions hurt legals' types......
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pappu
07-03 01:05 PM
/\/\/\
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reachinus
07-27 08:22 AM
Hello All,
I travelled by car to Quebec-Canada and came back to US thru vermont on AP since my H4 visa stamping has expired. I was given an I-94A which has no expiry date and also is says single use. They didn't take my old I-94 and issued me a new one with no expiry date. Can any one please tell me if they had the same expirenece or should i contact the Immigrations and ask them to issues a new I-94?
I read through a couple of forums and know that all were issued an I-94 with 1 year expiry date. What is the significance of that Date? I am asking this because we cannot travel on the same AP since the AP will expire in 1 year from the date of issue and hece we cannot use the AP even though the I-94 has 1 year validity.
Hope some one can throw some light on this.I
I travelled by car to Quebec-Canada and came back to US thru vermont on AP since my H4 visa stamping has expired. I was given an I-94A which has no expiry date and also is says single use. They didn't take my old I-94 and issued me a new one with no expiry date. Can any one please tell me if they had the same expirenece or should i contact the Immigrations and ask them to issues a new I-94?
I read through a couple of forums and know that all were issued an I-94 with 1 year expiry date. What is the significance of that Date? I am asking this because we cannot travel on the same AP since the AP will expire in 1 year from the date of issue and hece we cannot use the AP even though the I-94 has 1 year validity.
Hope some one can throw some light on this.I
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manderson
07-10 12:02 PM
Can anyone recommend any good IT consulting companies in Canada?
I need a permanent job offer to qualify for the points but most of the jobs for my skill set are either contract jobs or for relocation to USA. Please help.
I need a permanent job offer to qualify for the points but most of the jobs for my skill set are either contract jobs or for relocation to USA. Please help.
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hopefulgc
12-13 04:16 PM
whenever a good idea is raised .. we all obey hte dynamics of group behavior and divide ourselves into two parts
FOR and AGAINST the idea..
soon discussion ensues.. and since pessimism is more scary than optimism... and we have other "less viable" alternatives.. the good idea is soon forgotten.
Can we do something different this time and give this great idea the attention it deserves?
FOR and AGAINST the idea..
soon discussion ensues.. and since pessimism is more scary than optimism... and we have other "less viable" alternatives.. the good idea is soon forgotten.
Can we do something different this time and give this great idea the attention it deserves?
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binadh
07-11 12:45 PM
BharatPremi,
Same applies to you.. If you are so crazy about Bharat, what are you doing here.... HEHEHE. Just thought that it was kinda funny statement because of your name....BharatPremi --- :D
Chanduv23,
Even that Angelina seemed to be crazy about USA. If S/he would be happy about everything in Canada why the hell s/he even visit immigration related boards meant for USA?
Same applies to you.. If you are so crazy about Bharat, what are you doing here.... HEHEHE. Just thought that it was kinda funny statement because of your name....BharatPremi --- :D
Chanduv23,
Even that Angelina seemed to be crazy about USA. If S/he would be happy about everything in Canada why the hell s/he even visit immigration related boards meant for USA?
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Googler
02-15 01:49 PM
Yup Paskal I have a dug a little deeper. Although this case is about DV visa it is very similar to our Visa recatpure situation.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:yJNFLn-AtcsJ:vls.law.vill.edu/Locator/3d/Jan2004/031075p.pdf+court+order+immigrant+visa+number&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=in
Dvb, did you read the ruling? It denies relief and says that:
"We therefore join the Seventh and Eleventh Circuits in concluding that, in the current circumstances, the language Congress used precludes the INS from issuing a visa pursuant to the DV Program for a given fiscal year upon the expiration of that fiscal year. See Nyaga, 323 F.3d at 914; Iddir v. INS, 301 F.3d 492, 501 (7th Cir. 2002).8
8. Had Coraggioso sought relief prior to the expiration of the 1998 fiscal
year, our analysis may have been different."
So this case is not helpful to us, though it is good for us to be aware of its existence.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:yJNFLn-AtcsJ:vls.law.vill.edu/Locator/3d/Jan2004/031075p.pdf+court+order+immigrant+visa+number&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=in
Dvb, did you read the ruling? It denies relief and says that:
"We therefore join the Seventh and Eleventh Circuits in concluding that, in the current circumstances, the language Congress used precludes the INS from issuing a visa pursuant to the DV Program for a given fiscal year upon the expiration of that fiscal year. See Nyaga, 323 F.3d at 914; Iddir v. INS, 301 F.3d 492, 501 (7th Cir. 2002).8
8. Had Coraggioso sought relief prior to the expiration of the 1998 fiscal
year, our analysis may have been different."
So this case is not helpful to us, though it is good for us to be aware of its existence.
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ghouse1742
04-01 04:11 AM
You don't want to give any credit to 'Modi' than by your logic, Chandrababu Naidu shouldn't be give credit of 'Andhra' turnaround, Vajpayee shouldn't be given credit for Infrastructure turnaround...In India Politics & Politicians are so important, until they are pro-work, nothing works. UPA govt's attitude was sit & watch for Orders from 10 Janpath, so all of us know how they performed..
One might ignore land-scams of Naidu and support him. One might ignore fodder scams of lalu and support him. One might ignore the bribery cases on tape of vajpayee's office and support him. Because they have positive changes to their credit. But how does one convince oneself to support the so called human standing on dead bodies waving a flag of development.
Dude we are considered the cream of the crop who think clearly. How can we hand over the reigns of future of our sons and the well being of our daughters in India to a person who supported the rape and murder to young girls and destroyed livelihoods of thousands.
Imagine our christian friends trying to convince the jewish friends that they support Hitler because he is development pushing leader who is also church going, non smoking and that they do not support the side which actually supports rape, incarceration and murder of thousands who scrap out their living in the country. There is nothing like supporting half a person. You either support all his deeds or you dont. We or our kids will bear what we sow today.
That is it for me in this thread. Best of luck to us Indians. Jai hind !!!
One might ignore land-scams of Naidu and support him. One might ignore fodder scams of lalu and support him. One might ignore the bribery cases on tape of vajpayee's office and support him. Because they have positive changes to their credit. But how does one convince oneself to support the so called human standing on dead bodies waving a flag of development.
Dude we are considered the cream of the crop who think clearly. How can we hand over the reigns of future of our sons and the well being of our daughters in India to a person who supported the rape and murder to young girls and destroyed livelihoods of thousands.
Imagine our christian friends trying to convince the jewish friends that they support Hitler because he is development pushing leader who is also church going, non smoking and that they do not support the side which actually supports rape, incarceration and murder of thousands who scrap out their living in the country. There is nothing like supporting half a person. You either support all his deeds or you dont. We or our kids will bear what we sow today.
That is it for me in this thread. Best of luck to us Indians. Jai hind !!!
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mkumar
05-11 08:50 PM
Wrong! Stop assuming dude. People are here because they need the Green Card. We don't take an oath to renounce loyalties when we get it. Of course your intention is clear and I am thankful that we Indians don't need to count on you. Of course, its interesting that you are quite happy being a US Citizen when it's the US which has called the LTTE a terrorist organization. Hmm, I hope you did your research. Anyway, too late. We don't need you anymore in India and like I said earlier, good riddance. All the best!
Thanks for being the self-designated, unpaid spokesperson for "we indians" and keeping track of accountable indians :)
Thanks for being the self-designated, unpaid spokesperson for "we indians" and keeping track of accountable indians :)
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jaithran
07-17 12:25 PM
Too many guesses!!! I am a silent watcher here for last 1 or 2 yrs and all your calculations & guesses were proved wrong in the past. Some guys are too positive that they always guess & give some calcuations which seems like you are going to get your GC in 6 months..some are very negative that they always keep crying and always guess & give some calculation which seems like you will only get your GC in 2025. lol to be frank its really funny to see your guesses & calculations. BTW this is not to offend anyone her. Take it easy guys.:D
garybanz
12-14 02:15 PM
Federal Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) Laws
The Federal laws prohibiting job discrimination are:
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
the Equal Pay Act of 1963 (EPA), which protects men and women who perform substantially equal work in the same establishment from sex-based wage discrimination;
the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older;
Title I and Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA), which prohibit employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities in the private sector, and in state and local governments;
Sections 501 and 505 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibit discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities who work in the federal government;
and
the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which, among other things, provides monetary damages in cases of intentional employment discrimination.
If no one (including the Govt.) is allowed to discriminate based on national origin then how can the Govt. discriminate on EB Emigration based on national origin ?
I think this is a fair question and most Americans in my work place agree with me. I don't know if we will win the case or not but if we win we can get
1) Removal of country based quotas
2) recapture of Visa's lost due to country based quotas
If we lose the case we will at least get more attention of the national media, it's up to us how we manage the media attention and have a positive effect on the popularity of our cause.
IMHO taking the opinion of the best attorney on constitutional law can not hurt. :)
The Federal laws prohibiting job discrimination are:
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
the Equal Pay Act of 1963 (EPA), which protects men and women who perform substantially equal work in the same establishment from sex-based wage discrimination;
the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older;
Title I and Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA), which prohibit employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities in the private sector, and in state and local governments;
Sections 501 and 505 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibit discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities who work in the federal government;
and
the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which, among other things, provides monetary damages in cases of intentional employment discrimination.
If no one (including the Govt.) is allowed to discriminate based on national origin then how can the Govt. discriminate on EB Emigration based on national origin ?
I think this is a fair question and most Americans in my work place agree with me. I don't know if we will win the case or not but if we win we can get
1) Removal of country based quotas
2) recapture of Visa's lost due to country based quotas
If we lose the case we will at least get more attention of the national media, it's up to us how we manage the media attention and have a positive effect on the popularity of our cause.
IMHO taking the opinion of the best attorney on constitutional law can not hurt. :)
bfadlia
02-19 02:20 PM
You are a racist b* who just thinks about yourself and you have been planted here by other camp. U must have come out of some gutter country where democracy has no meaning and you don't know meaning of majority. You are favoring an agenda because it is good for you today. get the hell of this website. You don't belong here you racist bigot. May be we will need to track your ip address and throw you from here at some point of time.You hate Indians and Chinese and come back to IV where we have majority. This is not going to happen.
x: you are making idiotic arguments
y: if you think indians and chinese are idiots then you need to leave IV
please don't stop. your posts speak volumes on ur amazing mentality. i'm still amused.
i have no problem listening to all that a* b* f* vocabulary, it only reflects on ur maturity, but there is a serious problem when someone continuously tries to drag race into a discussion that does not relate to it.. then in his childish tantrums decides to speak on IV's behalf.. people should be advised to stop doing that.
x: you are making idiotic arguments
y: if you think indians and chinese are idiots then you need to leave IV
please don't stop. your posts speak volumes on ur amazing mentality. i'm still amused.
i have no problem listening to all that a* b* f* vocabulary, it only reflects on ur maturity, but there is a serious problem when someone continuously tries to drag race into a discussion that does not relate to it.. then in his childish tantrums decides to speak on IV's behalf.. people should be advised to stop doing that.
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