a_yaja
07-22 01:17 PM
To a_yaja,
Thanks for your detailed story my friend. This thread is turing into a support group for Amway/Quickstar victims.
How is your experience with your childhood Amway friend. Still friends or just keeping in touch because he has the acess to the Amway database? :P
I have come across quite a few of the Amway/ Quickstart folks. Like most of the people have described here, they usually approach me in Walmart, Meijer, etc. My first experience was in the temple. This dude and his wife went "oh wow! you know so many languages." After talking to the dude, he said that he knew some of my childhood friends and he remembered my face and that we could have possibly played cricket together in our childhood days (this itself should have raised red flags - but I was naive then and didn't think twice). Long story short, we exchanged phone #s and next day he called me and asked me to meet him at his home. He was running an "ecomm business" and was looking for partners. I asked him if he was talking about Amway and he innocently asked me "What is Amway?" I agreed to meet him but something bothered me. I called up another childhood friend who was in Amway and asked him about this dude. Sure enough he was an Amway-ite and already a "Diamond". I was mad and did not go to his house. He called me a couple of times but I never picked up the phone.
We remain good friends and agreed to disagree on Amway. Now our kids have also friends and when they grow up hopefully will continue being "friends from childhood" :-). And ofcourse - he is still a good source of Amway-ites.
Thanks for your detailed story my friend. This thread is turing into a support group for Amway/Quickstar victims.
How is your experience with your childhood Amway friend. Still friends or just keeping in touch because he has the acess to the Amway database? :P
I have come across quite a few of the Amway/ Quickstart folks. Like most of the people have described here, they usually approach me in Walmart, Meijer, etc. My first experience was in the temple. This dude and his wife went "oh wow! you know so many languages." After talking to the dude, he said that he knew some of my childhood friends and he remembered my face and that we could have possibly played cricket together in our childhood days (this itself should have raised red flags - but I was naive then and didn't think twice). Long story short, we exchanged phone #s and next day he called me and asked me to meet him at his home. He was running an "ecomm business" and was looking for partners. I asked him if he was talking about Amway and he innocently asked me "What is Amway?" I agreed to meet him but something bothered me. I called up another childhood friend who was in Amway and asked him about this dude. Sure enough he was an Amway-ite and already a "Diamond". I was mad and did not go to his house. He called me a couple of times but I never picked up the phone.
We remain good friends and agreed to disagree on Amway. Now our kids have also friends and when they grow up hopefully will continue being "friends from childhood" :-). And ofcourse - he is still a good source of Amway-ites.
wallpaper Glacier National Park, Montana
JazzByTheBay
12-13 04:31 PM
Wouldn't you think? If we have enough resources (a membership-based IV), perhaps we could explore the possibility of legal action, perhaps even a class action (not a lawyer myself... so not sure if that's in the realm of possibility... ), against this unconstitutional statute that restricts skilled folks from certain countries on the basis of diversity.
Diversity would be OK if folks from other countries weren't getting their Green Cards because of lack of immigrant visa numbers (in absence of per-country quota). But if each year the annual quotas of 140K aren't beint utilized, there's no rationale for restricting folks born in certain countries even though they have the necessary skills, imo.
Overall, treating countries with a population of 1 billion and over the same as countries with a lower population than the city of Los Angeles is insane.
jazz
employment base makes up only about 11% of all immigration
the country would not be "colonized" by choosing people for this category on merit alone. as for 90%- this is too is frankly a wave in my view, all things change, for now many Indian techs want to come and they have jobs available, tomorrow one or both of those things may not be true. But none that justifies treating people differently because of where they are born.
this is entirely my personal opinion: if extended families (like adult siblings and their entire families) were excluded from FB, country quotas would lose some of their "need" and FB would not have to be the overwhelming majority of immigration numbers.
How about I ask you why the "diversity" is not needed in other things. how about a quota for religion? profession? color of skin...? all those can be diversity issue. What if I said not more than 7% STEM graduates? I'm sure the Programmers Guild would agree. If you don't like those ideas, why country of birth?
The fact remains though that EB is a skill based category. If I or you(?) join a company with identical (or better) credentials as someone from Congo/Sweden/Belize (whatever), they would have an EB2 GC in 1-2 years, we would sit for 10 and stew under multiple career holds and restrictions. Since no body from India would ever get the EB2 GC quickly, an entire subset of immigrants (based on country of birth) are ALWAYS held behind. You are presuming that somehow this benefits the US. Get skilled immigrants- but don't let a whole bunch of them rise to their levels of ability because they were born wrong. I am at a disadvantage because other people from my country applied for a GC. But when my employer takes me on, he does not care where I was born. My skillset has nothing to do with it. Why is my application (which is based on that employer and my skillset) hostage to something that is not even in the equation? This country is about individual freedom. I am here and an applicant for GC as an individual. What do I have to do with others who apply?
Fair? You decide.
Diversity would be OK if folks from other countries weren't getting their Green Cards because of lack of immigrant visa numbers (in absence of per-country quota). But if each year the annual quotas of 140K aren't beint utilized, there's no rationale for restricting folks born in certain countries even though they have the necessary skills, imo.
Overall, treating countries with a population of 1 billion and over the same as countries with a lower population than the city of Los Angeles is insane.
jazz
employment base makes up only about 11% of all immigration
the country would not be "colonized" by choosing people for this category on merit alone. as for 90%- this is too is frankly a wave in my view, all things change, for now many Indian techs want to come and they have jobs available, tomorrow one or both of those things may not be true. But none that justifies treating people differently because of where they are born.
this is entirely my personal opinion: if extended families (like adult siblings and their entire families) were excluded from FB, country quotas would lose some of their "need" and FB would not have to be the overwhelming majority of immigration numbers.
How about I ask you why the "diversity" is not needed in other things. how about a quota for religion? profession? color of skin...? all those can be diversity issue. What if I said not more than 7% STEM graduates? I'm sure the Programmers Guild would agree. If you don't like those ideas, why country of birth?
The fact remains though that EB is a skill based category. If I or you(?) join a company with identical (or better) credentials as someone from Congo/Sweden/Belize (whatever), they would have an EB2 GC in 1-2 years, we would sit for 10 and stew under multiple career holds and restrictions. Since no body from India would ever get the EB2 GC quickly, an entire subset of immigrants (based on country of birth) are ALWAYS held behind. You are presuming that somehow this benefits the US. Get skilled immigrants- but don't let a whole bunch of them rise to their levels of ability because they were born wrong. I am at a disadvantage because other people from my country applied for a GC. But when my employer takes me on, he does not care where I was born. My skillset has nothing to do with it. Why is my application (which is based on that employer and my skillset) hostage to something that is not even in the equation? This country is about individual freedom. I am here and an applicant for GC as an individual. What do I have to do with others who apply?
Fair? You decide.
akred
02-16 12:10 PM
Fraud and corruption is prevalent everywhere incuding India and a prepondernece of the bodyshops are nothing but a factory of producing overnight "IT Talents". Accept this is as one of the problem of this retrogression.
No one is going to fall for or accept this type of torn shirt, open fly argument. Retrogression is caused by insufficient GC numbers and worsened for some countries due to the country caps. The fact that there is corruption in India or any of the other random reasons you are trotting out in no way mitigates the fact that people are being forced to wait after fulfilling all of the qualifying criteria set forth by the US government.
No one is going to fall for or accept this type of torn shirt, open fly argument. Retrogression is caused by insufficient GC numbers and worsened for some countries due to the country caps. The fact that there is corruption in India or any of the other random reasons you are trotting out in no way mitigates the fact that people are being forced to wait after fulfilling all of the qualifying criteria set forth by the US government.
2011 John L. Clarke, Glacier Park
sanju
09-23 11:03 AM
already bought a house in 2004.. so no immediate use for me! but I do like the idea! it will surely benefit me if the queue reduces even by 20%
although i wonder if there are people out there who really want to purchase a house in this financial crisis ?!?!
This is a great time to buy a house right now. The prices are the lowest. Government intervention will stabalize the credit crisis and more deserving people with good credit score will be able to secure loans/mortgages. If the government bail-out doesn't work, well, gc and any related discussion will be irrelevant. So we just have to expect (or shall I say assume) that bail-out will work, which will stablize the markets, that means this is the bottom of housing crisis i.e. lowest prices available to buy a house. There couldn't be a better times to start an American dream....
although i wonder if there are people out there who really want to purchase a house in this financial crisis ?!?!
This is a great time to buy a house right now. The prices are the lowest. Government intervention will stabalize the credit crisis and more deserving people with good credit score will be able to secure loans/mortgages. If the government bail-out doesn't work, well, gc and any related discussion will be irrelevant. So we just have to expect (or shall I say assume) that bail-out will work, which will stablize the markets, that means this is the bottom of housing crisis i.e. lowest prices available to buy a house. There couldn't be a better times to start an American dream....
more...
amsgc
12-21 04:07 PM
albertpinto,
I agree that it is not going to be easy - but I don't see any other way.
It is easy to throw numbers - 200K, 500K waiting, 750K apps received etc. etc., but unless there is evidence to back it up, these numbers mean nothing. What is our answer to a Senator who asks how many people are waiting in line Eb category? And what is the source of that data?
How else can we estimate how much money we are paying every year in taxes and contributing to the growth of the economy? Or, how many really intend to buy a house on receipt of the Green Card?
Perhaps we can think of some other strategy to arrive at some concrete numbers - but I sincerely don't think a database of anonymous unverifiable members is of much use. By the way, when I said verifiable, I meant that if a representative from a senators office were to randomly call a number from the database, he would find a legal immigrant at the other end who is trying to find his way through this process.
I like the idea of a temporary green card - there has been talk about it in the forums in the past. We could also consider pitching the idea of "expedited/early evaluation/adjudication", of the I-485, for a fee. The main point could be:
- For a fee, you will know for sure whether all your paperwork/interview work is complete, the case has been adjudicated, and your application is waiting only for a visa umber.
- Once the case is adjudicated - the USCIS sends you a letter that it is complete. Now can do almost anything with your EAD/AP - work for any employer, any field, any state, study, start a business etc.
The USCIS can define the criteria for accepting cases for early evaluation, such as:
- PD older than 3 years
- Buying a house etc.
- Attempting to start a business, changing job, going back to school to enhance skills etc.
Any other thoughts, any one?
I will be surprised if you get many mails - if you are asking people to reveal their phone numbers and the estimated taxes - how many will send mails ? and how can you verify what is being sent ??
the main point should be keep it simple !!!
-- I suggest this ...
1) come up with a plan ..either to send letters to media or logfren or both ..tell them about GC and housing and to speed up the process for those already here (rather than increasing h1 - which is controversial during slowdowns).
at the very least give us temporary green cards (if they cannot do a recapture) ..this temp card should be similar to permanent GC ..but it should give the applicant the freedom from RFE's etc (I know these sound difficult ..but it is new year and who knows Santa may grant us our wish :)).
2) give them approx figure that there are 300k families who are planning to buy house sooner or later ..but the GC is preventing them.
3) the other main point is to keep on increasing IV's member ship by telling everyone about this campaign ..maybe we need the dedication like the AMway guys to increase membership !!
(also ..please post on one thread and keep only one thread active at a time).
I agree that it is not going to be easy - but I don't see any other way.
It is easy to throw numbers - 200K, 500K waiting, 750K apps received etc. etc., but unless there is evidence to back it up, these numbers mean nothing. What is our answer to a Senator who asks how many people are waiting in line Eb category? And what is the source of that data?
How else can we estimate how much money we are paying every year in taxes and contributing to the growth of the economy? Or, how many really intend to buy a house on receipt of the Green Card?
Perhaps we can think of some other strategy to arrive at some concrete numbers - but I sincerely don't think a database of anonymous unverifiable members is of much use. By the way, when I said verifiable, I meant that if a representative from a senators office were to randomly call a number from the database, he would find a legal immigrant at the other end who is trying to find his way through this process.
I like the idea of a temporary green card - there has been talk about it in the forums in the past. We could also consider pitching the idea of "expedited/early evaluation/adjudication", of the I-485, for a fee. The main point could be:
- For a fee, you will know for sure whether all your paperwork/interview work is complete, the case has been adjudicated, and your application is waiting only for a visa umber.
- Once the case is adjudicated - the USCIS sends you a letter that it is complete. Now can do almost anything with your EAD/AP - work for any employer, any field, any state, study, start a business etc.
The USCIS can define the criteria for accepting cases for early evaluation, such as:
- PD older than 3 years
- Buying a house etc.
- Attempting to start a business, changing job, going back to school to enhance skills etc.
Any other thoughts, any one?
I will be surprised if you get many mails - if you are asking people to reveal their phone numbers and the estimated taxes - how many will send mails ? and how can you verify what is being sent ??
the main point should be keep it simple !!!
-- I suggest this ...
1) come up with a plan ..either to send letters to media or logfren or both ..tell them about GC and housing and to speed up the process for those already here (rather than increasing h1 - which is controversial during slowdowns).
at the very least give us temporary green cards (if they cannot do a recapture) ..this temp card should be similar to permanent GC ..but it should give the applicant the freedom from RFE's etc (I know these sound difficult ..but it is new year and who knows Santa may grant us our wish :)).
2) give them approx figure that there are 300k families who are planning to buy house sooner or later ..but the GC is preventing them.
3) the other main point is to keep on increasing IV's member ship by telling everyone about this campaign ..maybe we need the dedication like the AMway guys to increase membership !!
(also ..please post on one thread and keep only one thread active at a time).
sounakc
08-13 05:23 PM
riends need ur suggestion/help regarding the following matter:
filed my I-485 in july 07. submitted my G325A form. didnt filed for my wifes AOS. since she was in india and we were mutually drifting apart. only mentioned her name in the G325A form, since she was still legally my wife.
Now the official relief came as divorce this month.
my question is do i need to send USCIS an updated G325A mentioning about my divorce? (along with a divorce certificate)
will it create any problem when I try to include my next better half in future.
filed my I-485 in july 07. submitted my G325A form. didnt filed for my wifes AOS. since she was in india and we were mutually drifting apart. only mentioned her name in the G325A form, since she was still legally my wife.
Now the official relief came as divorce this month.
my question is do i need to send USCIS an updated G325A mentioning about my divorce? (along with a divorce certificate)
will it create any problem when I try to include my next better half in future.
more...
vikki76
05-10 04:33 PM
Australia is backup option for me. For various personal reasons-I didn't chose Canada.
Cons of immigration to Canada
-Weather
-Dependency on US
-not very diverse society
Pros of Australia
-Weather
-Trading partners with N America,Europe,Asia
-Very very diverse society with east europeans,south east asians
As for job scene,I am thinking that both are almost same, but in Australia,indian firms have a major presence.It is cheaper to open an office in Melbourne than in Bangalore!.
Cons of immigration to Canada
-Weather
-Dependency on US
-not very diverse society
Pros of Australia
-Weather
-Trading partners with N America,Europe,Asia
-Very very diverse society with east europeans,south east asians
As for job scene,I am thinking that both are almost same, but in Australia,indian firms have a major presence.It is cheaper to open an office in Melbourne than in Bangalore!.
2010 6) Glacier National Park,
EB2IMMIGRANT
08-20 09:07 PM
Heat on SRK was because of scanner on Bollywood shows - US - World - NEWS - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/us/Heat-on-SRK-was-because-of-scanner-on-Bollywood-shows/articleshow/4916759.cms)
more...
needhelp!
09-23 02:21 PM
Sending link to TX chapter now.
hair Glacier National Park Coin
ItIsNotFunny
03-18 02:59 PM
How much are you paying to get the pre-approved labor? The law to ban it is coming soon. So you may have to do it fast.
Thats true. By the way, I saw Janak saying somewhere that labor substituion should be banned. Its nice to see that he changed his mind. Of course I do believe that it should not be misused, sometimes it saves your life here which is more important if you are with family and trying to settle down here.
Anyway, before OMB approved substitution ban, file ASAP.
Thats true. By the way, I saw Janak saying somewhere that labor substituion should be banned. Its nice to see that he changed his mind. Of course I do believe that it should not be misused, sometimes it saves your life here which is more important if you are with family and trying to settle down here.
Anyway, before OMB approved substitution ban, file ASAP.
more...
mbawa2574
02-15 04:25 PM
Human nature is what tends to create the monopoly. That's the reason for having laws, we know favorism will always exist but a law would prevent it from going over the limit. The way you want it we'll have whites-only-business, asians-only-business and so on..
When you are tired of this discussion you should ask to stop the ones who started it saying their people are better and brighter than others and hence deserve larger immigration volume, before you ask to stop the people who answer them.
America is about freedom and liberty and is a law abiding country. Country caps is discrimination with people of two countries which have almost half of the population in the world. I am not saying increase visas for India or China. I am only saying increase the total number of visas and then make the system FIFO so that every skilled person in this world have same access to immigration.
When you are tired of this discussion you should ask to stop the ones who started it saying their people are better and brighter than others and hence deserve larger immigration volume, before you ask to stop the people who answer them.
America is about freedom and liberty and is a law abiding country. Country caps is discrimination with people of two countries which have almost half of the population in the world. I am not saying increase visas for India or China. I am only saying increase the total number of visas and then make the system FIFO so that every skilled person in this world have same access to immigration.
hot Glacier National Park Topo Map
sbabunle
04-28 08:23 PM
Now its just a matter of time..I'm glad it is a rule now. I think
a ton of applications will end up in trash cans. Especially from these
consulting companies..
Only thing is that they have 45 day validity for approved labor.
Hope they extended it some more time.
a ton of applications will end up in trash cans. Especially from these
consulting companies..
Only thing is that they have 45 day validity for approved labor.
Hope they extended it some more time.
more...
house Glacier National Park, MT
mallu
05-14 03:09 AM
http://www.rediff.com/money/2007/may/14it.htm
Are those returned due to --ssed of immigration system here ?
Are those returned due to --ssed of immigration system here ?
tattoo Glacier National Park,
at0474
12-14 01:09 PM
Don't be upset dude. I'm just trying to suggest so that we could think out of the box. I don't think I have a bad taste.
Honestly, we tend to be discuss to much the law here. We are not experts of law and I think we should start calling our lawyers and talk to them about this idea. Let's see what our lawyers will say and then we can share those comments from lawyers.
Please don't be upset.
--Cheers!
Honestly, we tend to be discuss to much the law here. We are not experts of law and I think we should start calling our lawyers and talk to them about this idea. Let's see what our lawyers will say and then we can share those comments from lawyers.
Please don't be upset.
--Cheers!
more...
pictures Glacier National Park,
srkamath
07-17 11:42 AM
The Problem is isolating EB-2 India from the Perm Approvals.
EB2 were ~ 35% of India approvals between Mar-05 to Oct-05, then it ramped up to ~65% - 70% for most of FY 2006.
Total EB2 IN cases per year 2006 onwards were north of 18,000, which implies at least 40,000 Visas including dependants.
Method: Apply filters for - Approved - India - Level I - bakers, cooks, elementary school teachers etc.
This will slightly overestimate the EB2 IN numbers.
Remember to remove the previous year's applicants as their PD will be the previous year, add them to the prev. year's estimate.
EB2 were ~ 35% of India approvals between Mar-05 to Oct-05, then it ramped up to ~65% - 70% for most of FY 2006.
Total EB2 IN cases per year 2006 onwards were north of 18,000, which implies at least 40,000 Visas including dependants.
Method: Apply filters for - Approved - India - Level I - bakers, cooks, elementary school teachers etc.
This will slightly overestimate the EB2 IN numbers.
Remember to remove the previous year's applicants as their PD will be the previous year, add them to the prev. year's estimate.
dresses Double Falls 2
Hassan11
07-13 01:56 PM
I agree with gdilla,
The common factor among all these unsuccessful stories is that all of them have degrees from a foreign university (not Canadian or US degree). I am sure it will be different for people who live in the US and have work experience from a US company. Also people who come directly to Canada from their country have culture shock. That is normal for people who haven't traveled out side their country before. But if you lived in the US, society and culture in Canada will not be that different
Again, everybody has to do their own DD before they pack their stuff and immigrate. That is just common sense
This is the most ridiculous article I've ever seen.
"I should have done my own homework before I applied" - no $hit. What makes you think going to med school in Indian means jack in Canada or the US. You have to get board certified. Duh. And I'm afraid cold calling doesn't work anywhere, including the US... does this work in India? Of course they're not going to listen to you. Jeez. People not doing their due diligence before THEY PACK UP AND MOVE HALF WAY ROUND the world... yeah, that proves to me you are smart enough to hire.
[QUOTE=sankap]Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
The common factor among all these unsuccessful stories is that all of them have degrees from a foreign university (not Canadian or US degree). I am sure it will be different for people who live in the US and have work experience from a US company. Also people who come directly to Canada from their country have culture shock. That is normal for people who haven't traveled out side their country before. But if you lived in the US, society and culture in Canada will not be that different
Again, everybody has to do their own DD before they pack their stuff and immigrate. That is just common sense
This is the most ridiculous article I've ever seen.
"I should have done my own homework before I applied" - no $hit. What makes you think going to med school in Indian means jack in Canada or the US. You have to get board certified. Duh. And I'm afraid cold calling doesn't work anywhere, including the US... does this work in India? Of course they're not going to listen to you. Jeez. People not doing their due diligence before THEY PACK UP AND MOVE HALF WAY ROUND the world... yeah, that proves to me you are smart enough to hire.
[QUOTE=sankap]Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
more...
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surya.kant
05-30 09:22 AM
Mr. Oppenheim stated that, due to the dramatic increase in employment-based filings, visa cutoff dates for FY2010 will be much more limited to ensure that there will be a steady supply of visa numbers available throughout the year. This will lead to earlier cutoff dates and may help prevent visa categories from becoming unavailable.
This is the key for VB in coming months. The cut-offs will move slowly and that would mean FIFO for approvals.
Recapturing unused visa is the only way to reduce the gap between visa supply and demand.
This is the key for VB in coming months. The cut-offs will move slowly and that would mean FIFO for approvals.
Recapturing unused visa is the only way to reduce the gap between visa supply and demand.
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JazzByTheBay
02-15 10:44 AM
You can pack your bags and leave. You are here by your own choice, and work within the legal framework of the country. You are free to leave when you please.
The slavery argument doesn't hold.
jazz
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
The slavery argument doesn't hold.
jazz
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
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_TrueFacts
09-04 08:12 PM
I spent almost an hr going through these massive 12 pages and concluded to support British's saying "Indians are dogs" and I want to add the following,
Kanaka
We should discuss JP. We should invite him to this forum to answer certain questions.
Kanaka
We should discuss JP. We should invite him to this forum to answer certain questions.
apb
12-14 02:24 PM
I really don't see how removing the per country ceilings alone without increasing the anual quota will help the entire comminity. If you do that alone all it will do is make the date retrogressed for all the countries even further. So where's the gain?
Getting the anual quota increased, not counting dependents in the quota and recapturing visas from passed years will help EVERYBODY.
If people want to think that something petty as removing the per country quota is going to solve all our problms then all the best (and God bless us all) ! :cool:
PS - Pardon me if this sounds harsh but this is how I see it.
We need to understand that the basic premise of the removing the per country limit uses the assumption that there is enough visa for all of us. But sadly this is not true. We have ask for increasing the GC limit from 140000 to xyz. The last increase was in 1990 which was after 14 years. Now 18 years have passed and there is no change in that direction.
Increasing limit cannot be fought in the court. It requires changes in law. Removing dependents from EB based GC consumption also cannot be decided in court. But removing per country limit for EB/GC can be decided in court. Just because we are fighting for one does not mean we are ignoring other agendas of IV.
Getting the anual quota increased, not counting dependents in the quota and recapturing visas from passed years will help EVERYBODY.
If people want to think that something petty as removing the per country quota is going to solve all our problms then all the best (and God bless us all) ! :cool:
PS - Pardon me if this sounds harsh but this is how I see it.
We need to understand that the basic premise of the removing the per country limit uses the assumption that there is enough visa for all of us. But sadly this is not true. We have ask for increasing the GC limit from 140000 to xyz. The last increase was in 1990 which was after 14 years. Now 18 years have passed and there is no change in that direction.
Increasing limit cannot be fought in the court. It requires changes in law. Removing dependents from EB based GC consumption also cannot be decided in court. But removing per country limit for EB/GC can be decided in court. Just because we are fighting for one does not mean we are ignoring other agendas of IV.
sunny1000
12-13 03:30 PM
The OP was whether the country quota is constitutional. My interest was to find out if the current laws and regulations are violated by the country quota.
As lazycis pointed out, SC seems to uphold the current situation.
I was not looking into arguing in a court whether a particular regulation is fair or not. The law is what it is (what I or you consider fair or unfair is immaterial), question was : Is the law being implemented or not? Seems like it is.
To change the law, we as IV are lobbying and meeting lawmakers already.
Unless a constitutional lawyer says otherwise, I see no reason to pursue the country quota in a court, considering lazycis post.
You are right. The courts have long taken a position wherein they give a lot leeway to the Congress and the Executive when it comes to Foreign policy and immigration definitely falls under foreign policy.
As lazycis pointed out, SC seems to uphold the current situation.
I was not looking into arguing in a court whether a particular regulation is fair or not. The law is what it is (what I or you consider fair or unfair is immaterial), question was : Is the law being implemented or not? Seems like it is.
To change the law, we as IV are lobbying and meeting lawmakers already.
Unless a constitutional lawyer says otherwise, I see no reason to pursue the country quota in a court, considering lazycis post.
You are right. The courts have long taken a position wherein they give a lot leeway to the Congress and the Executive when it comes to Foreign policy and immigration definitely falls under foreign policy.
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