mirage
03-27 03:17 PM
If you forget all that Communal/Secular mudslinging for a little bit, here's an unbiased opinion about the performance of the UPA govt.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Comments--Analysis/Fall-of-the-holy-trinity-MMS-PC-Montek/articleshow/4316378.cms?curpg=1
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Comments--Analysis/Fall-of-the-holy-trinity-MMS-PC-Montek/articleshow/4316378.cms?curpg=1
wallpaper Jeep Willys MA 1941 poster NC155982
alterego
12-14 04:08 PM
Visa wastage in the era of massive visa demand is our best argument and visa recapture is our most legitimate request(along with administrative fixes outlined previously). As a side point, most of AC21 recaptured visas went to oversubscribed countries until they ran out in 2005. They lasted almost 4 yrs. If we were to get a similar number, I suspect they may only last 2 yrs this time, but nevertheless, it will last until legislators have a chance to look at this thing again.
If we can achieve this, we will get most of what we need until this immigration debate rages again in 2009/2010.
Changing the entire system is frankly beyond the scope of our limited resources as well as takes this issue into an area of much hostility and feeds into the innate fears of Americans. I really can't see the sense in that.
If we can achieve this, we will get most of what we need until this immigration debate rages again in 2009/2010.
Changing the entire system is frankly beyond the scope of our limited resources as well as takes this issue into an area of much hostility and feeds into the innate fears of Americans. I really can't see the sense in that.
HumJumboHathuJumbo
09-23 03:05 PM
why not ask for citizenship if we buy 2 houses?. I will even buy that toxic debt from banks, if i get citizenship and a gori.
2011 Photo of Willys MA Jeep,
garybanz
12-14 02:35 PM
I still dont see any discrimination on the existing laws. The number of visas divided equally to all countries.
Why not divide equally across all races? or all kind of jobs? or different ages? or color of eyes? ...left hand right hand? Yankee fans and red sox fans?
Why not divide all the jobs in USA equally among some of the above categories?
EEO does not say take the total pool of jobs and divide it exactly equally among all the race, color, religion, sex, and national origin or for that matter any of the categories I mentioned. EEO says every one gets an equal shot at the job.
Do you understand the discrimination now?
Why not divide equally across all races? or all kind of jobs? or different ages? or color of eyes? ...left hand right hand? Yankee fans and red sox fans?
Why not divide all the jobs in USA equally among some of the above categories?
EEO does not say take the total pool of jobs and divide it exactly equally among all the race, color, religion, sex, and national origin or for that matter any of the categories I mentioned. EEO says every one gets an equal shot at the job.
Do you understand the discrimination now?
more...
LC2002
03-19 09:23 PM
If anyone who is stuck in with labor gets oppurtunity must use it. Even people who are jealous are given this oppurtunity will be first to run with that.
Very well said Subst_labor. People like Janak are simply jealous that you had the offer. People like him always will think that you are cheating the system or something like that just because a company offered you a labor substitution. I think that one should not judge such cases, and I am actually happy for all of those who are fortunate enough to receive their green cards sooner because of third factors. Good luck with your Labor subst. I hope the company is OK.
G
Very well said Subst_labor. People like Janak are simply jealous that you had the offer. People like him always will think that you are cheating the system or something like that just because a company offered you a labor substitution. I think that one should not judge such cases, and I am actually happy for all of those who are fortunate enough to receive their green cards sooner because of third factors. Good luck with your Labor subst. I hope the company is OK.
G
.jpg "Ford GP and Willys MA by")
BharatPremi
09-24 04:54 PM
Not sure what you are talking about. There are two rules as follows
28.6% EB visas for each category EB1/EB2/EB3 and 7.1% for EB4/EB5
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
7% limit for each country in EB category (India will get 9800 visa in all EB1-5 categories)
+ 2% dependent limit for each country in EB category
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
To enforce the limit each EB subcategory (EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5) enforces country cap, no more than 2822 visa for India in EB1/EB2/EB3 categories.
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
The limit can be extended when there are leftover visas (this is what has extended the limit for EB1/EB2/EB3 India for last few years).
/\ my answers
28.6% EB visas for each category EB1/EB2/EB3 and 7.1% for EB4/EB5
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
7% limit for each country in EB category (India will get 9800 visa in all EB1-5 categories)
+ 2% dependent limit for each country in EB category
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
To enforce the limit each EB subcategory (EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5) enforces country cap, no more than 2822 visa for India in EB1/EB2/EB3 categories.
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
The limit can be extended when there are leftover visas (this is what has extended the limit for EB1/EB2/EB3 India for last few years).
/\ my answers
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mbartosik
12-13 11:45 AM
There may or may not be constitution grounds to challenge the law, I've thought about this too, however from a pragmatic point of view....
1) The money needed to pay the lawyers would likely be more than for lobbying. Importantly money for legal costs is best to be on hand -- i.e. good cash flow, otherwise you risk missing legal deadlines. It would mean diverting money from lobbying. If we were flush with cash e.g. every member paid just $100 per year this would work.
2) Even among members of congress that are behind us, several have reservations about removing country cap (although they are willing to raise it).
3) EB3 ROW is retrogressed anyway. India EB3 is about May 2001, and ROW EB3 Oct 2002. The effect of only removing country quota would be put EB3 generally at about Oct 2001.
The way to move forward for all is to increase total through put, e.g. raise caps, remove dependents from caps, recapture unused quota, tie caps to multiple of H1B quota. For ROW it would move steadily forward, and India move and then would jump forward every 4th quarter with massive spill over from ROW.
As I said I'm not against the idea in principle, just being pragmatic.
1) The money needed to pay the lawyers would likely be more than for lobbying. Importantly money for legal costs is best to be on hand -- i.e. good cash flow, otherwise you risk missing legal deadlines. It would mean diverting money from lobbying. If we were flush with cash e.g. every member paid just $100 per year this would work.
2) Even among members of congress that are behind us, several have reservations about removing country cap (although they are willing to raise it).
3) EB3 ROW is retrogressed anyway. India EB3 is about May 2001, and ROW EB3 Oct 2002. The effect of only removing country quota would be put EB3 generally at about Oct 2001.
The way to move forward for all is to increase total through put, e.g. raise caps, remove dependents from caps, recapture unused quota, tie caps to multiple of H1B quota. For ROW it would move steadily forward, and India move and then would jump forward every 4th quarter with massive spill over from ROW.
As I said I'm not against the idea in principle, just being pragmatic.
2010 Jeep Willys MA 1941 1 590x442
franklin
02-13 10:46 AM
This is great!!!
All my Indian friends who were fighting with me over the (1 or 2) unused EB-2 visas from ROW, well, you can have them my friends. I ain't getting any of them anyway.
Ha! Maybe this will be the penny that drops to make people realize that this isn't "just an Indian or Chinese thing"
All my Indian friends who were fighting with me over the (1 or 2) unused EB-2 visas from ROW, well, you can have them my friends. I ain't getting any of them anyway.
Ha! Maybe this will be the penny that drops to make people realize that this isn't "just an Indian or Chinese thing"
more...
u.misc
01-25 02:55 PM
I thought we're not supposed to pay for H1 and GC. Correct me if I'm wrong? I guess we can only pay for the visa appointment fee.
I came here in 1999, at that time employer was not bound to pay for H1-B expense. Later USCIS enforced the law and now most employer do pay for H1-B.
However for GC, its the employer's discretion and there is no written rule as who should bear the cost fo GC filing. I paid for mine.
I came here in 1999, at that time employer was not bound to pay for H1-B expense. Later USCIS enforced the law and now most employer do pay for H1-B.
However for GC, its the employer's discretion and there is no written rule as who should bear the cost fo GC filing. I paid for mine.
hair 1941 Jeep Willys at Chrysler
thepaew
05-29 10:03 AM
I guess people who work in IT have a very IT-centric world view. I don't and I know several EB1 candidates. They are extremely qualified and have extraordinary ability that can be documented with PhD, papers, patents and awards.
Even if we prevent possible abuse of this category, it will not help retrogression for EB2/3-I. The only fix is going to be legislative and we should focus our energies on that.
I am not sure if EB1 India cap of 3000 visas has been met already. If it was met, then they would have set a priority date for EB1 India too. Assuming that it is not being met, these project managers along with their spouses should be taking only a very small number and that shouldn't contribute much to EB2-3 retrogression numbers. So our real problem is lack of numbers for EB2 and EB3.
Even if we prevent possible abuse of this category, it will not help retrogression for EB2/3-I. The only fix is going to be legislative and we should focus our energies on that.
I am not sure if EB1 India cap of 3000 visas has been met already. If it was met, then they would have set a priority date for EB1 India too. Assuming that it is not being met, these project managers along with their spouses should be taking only a very small number and that shouldn't contribute much to EB2-3 retrogression numbers. So our real problem is lack of numbers for EB2 and EB3.
more...
jayleno
07-22 12:07 PM
Dont you think you took it too far? I dont think you make much sense. There it is, since you asked for my opinion.
Smile - I can prove this is a relevant topic ..how..
Some of these jokers (Quikstar..Amway) have filed GC in EB2 and Eb3 which is illegal, someday states Like Arizona will declare that anyone looking like us should be checked for Amway membership and deported
Profiling is an issue and because of some jokers we all may have to go thru scrutiny.
We should ask USCIS to check all GC applicants name in Amway database and if found USCIS needs to send them to Mexico (because illegal)..
We should write to senators... your opinion on this? ( this way Indiancommunity can be clean and fight for legal hardworking people in immigration policy)
Smile - I can prove this is a relevant topic ..how..
Some of these jokers (Quikstar..Amway) have filed GC in EB2 and Eb3 which is illegal, someday states Like Arizona will declare that anyone looking like us should be checked for Amway membership and deported
Profiling is an issue and because of some jokers we all may have to go thru scrutiny.
We should ask USCIS to check all GC applicants name in Amway database and if found USCIS needs to send them to Mexico (because illegal)..
We should write to senators... your opinion on this? ( this way Indiancommunity can be clean and fight for legal hardworking people in immigration policy)
hot 1941 Jeep Willys MA
Openarms
08-17 11:53 AM
These morons never learn lessons. He is insulting him self by bitching about it....the Officers are just doing their job to verify their system... Can you imagine that a foreigner coming to India might have to go through ordeal if Indian Official suspects that he is a terrorist just because his records show....He should not forget that US has such system to verify and let him go.... where is SRK and others showing some passion when similar thing happen to President Abul Kalam? where is SRK and others showing some passion when bombings happened and innocent people get killed time and time again in India. Did he called for such system in India??? Where is SRK and others showing some passion that we need to improve Education System so that we can be proud of as Indians again? These guys thinks every thing for me nothing for others. They got all the money in the world they want.. now what?? how much is enough for these guys....People like him should learn life lessons like this and try to change Indian peoples life so that they get respect around the world. I think that is better for all of us. As Indians we should teach them or remind them when they forget those values.
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house 1941 Jeep Willys Ma. The Willys MB US Army Jeep,
krishmunn
07-27 06:11 PM
Oh yeahhh..."1099-int" was a rhetorical statement as you mentioned it.
Don't worry I have already done my homework with law offices or CIS, as I had to show all incomes during interviews. Keep on squeaking.
One somewhat unrelated question --- Why did you have to attend an interview with CIS (and show your income) ?
AFAIK CIS interviews only during adjudication of 485 (for some cases) .. never heard of CIS interviewing for extension of H1 or other matters. If they are interviewing EB 3 2006 cases it is a good sign
Don't worry I have already done my homework with law offices or CIS, as I had to show all incomes during interviews. Keep on squeaking.
One somewhat unrelated question --- Why did you have to attend an interview with CIS (and show your income) ?
AFAIK CIS interviews only during adjudication of 485 (for some cases) .. never heard of CIS interviewing for extension of H1 or other matters. If they are interviewing EB 3 2006 cases it is a good sign
tattoo Ford GP and Willys MA by
eb2_mumbai
09-28 10:48 AM
I have a few questions of guru's on this forum.
What made USCIS change the rules of spill over from EB3 to EB2. We all know that rules changed in 2007 but I am not sure what prompted USCIS to make the change was it AILA or IV or just internal USCIS review?
The reason I ask this question is when I was looking at the EB3 thread there were lots of people especially with PD between 2001 & 2004 who feel they can start a campaign to revert this spill over decision to pre 2007 criteria. I am neither opposing them nor supporting them but I want to understand the reasons the changes were made.
At this moment I feel their appeal is more at emotional level rather than having a sound resoning. Its like we are waiting since 8 years so please assign us these spillover numbers. But I do not feel that will cut ice with CIS. We need to work for visa recapture but till this spilover thing is put to rest no one will concentrate on recapture
What made USCIS change the rules of spill over from EB3 to EB2. We all know that rules changed in 2007 but I am not sure what prompted USCIS to make the change was it AILA or IV or just internal USCIS review?
The reason I ask this question is when I was looking at the EB3 thread there were lots of people especially with PD between 2001 & 2004 who feel they can start a campaign to revert this spill over decision to pre 2007 criteria. I am neither opposing them nor supporting them but I want to understand the reasons the changes were made.
At this moment I feel their appeal is more at emotional level rather than having a sound resoning. Its like we are waiting since 8 years so please assign us these spillover numbers. But I do not feel that will cut ice with CIS. We need to work for visa recapture but till this spilover thing is put to rest no one will concentrate on recapture
more...
pictures 4UPWillysMA
HumJumboHathuJumbo
09-23 04:57 PM
you are buying a house. they are to give gc in return for us pumping money into the system which otherwise would not have come in
its not about their feelings or yours... there is a law and IV is trying to change the law by a legitimate process. do not use words like bribe which refer to improper personal payments for benefits that dont belong.
the new law should decide that... the discussion is open...
It should be under EB5 category since its an investment. How do you go from being a qualified skilled worker taking a job in US because no US ciitizen is available, to being qualified to buy a house?.
its not about their feelings or yours... there is a law and IV is trying to change the law by a legitimate process. do not use words like bribe which refer to improper personal payments for benefits that dont belong.
the new law should decide that... the discussion is open...
It should be under EB5 category since its an investment. How do you go from being a qualified skilled worker taking a job in US because no US ciitizen is available, to being qualified to buy a house?.
dresses Willys MA. Jeep CJ
chanduv23
02-13 12:16 PM
its been a while i read the forums..
well... well !! chandubhai finally cooled down and talking wisdom :-)
well "the intent is the same" :) just following some wonderful advices from some good samaritans :)
But I will always stand on what I would like to see - What I want to see is UNITY among the community and I will be more happy if more and more people stand up and support the efforts.
well... well !! chandubhai finally cooled down and talking wisdom :-)
well "the intent is the same" :) just following some wonderful advices from some good samaritans :)
But I will always stand on what I would like to see - What I want to see is UNITY among the community and I will be more happy if more and more people stand up and support the efforts.
more...
makeup Jeep Willys MA 1941
PlainSpeak
01-13 12:54 PM
Do not overanalyze any bill- All these bills are mere drafts until they come on floor for debate, and even after that they go thru amendments, rewriting, and the final bill comes out in most cases to be very different from the original. Even after the bill is passed in both houses, the committees that are responsible in reconciling the bill will tweak it and fine tune it.
This means that even good provisions can be deleted at any time during the debate, thru an amendment lobbied by the antis- if the EB Community is not vigilant.
To give you an insight: In Dec 2005, there was a line item in a bill that would have recaptured visas for EB applicants, the bill was passed � and at the last minute this provision was deleted.
IF you read through the provisions and the paper that IV created for lobby days in July 2010- Each one of the provisions and the underlying text that IV is asking for has been written with clear understanding of the issues EB applicants face- It is written in a way that if incorporated in any of the bills as an amendment- will give fair and balanced numbers to all categories -EB3, EB2.
So, regardless of which bill (Immigrant friendly) comes on the floor- IV will lobby to have this package included as an amendment. Or IV will lobby to get this inserted into the main bill.
So- Please, do not get worked up about EB3 vs EB2. OR India vs China vs World
The real work is to be vigilant about what bill has the chance to come on the floor and then lobby to get the amendments included.
There are bigger issues for our community- Not one immigrant friendly bill has come up for debate in the last 4 years (exception is the dream act). And here the IV Community is debating and fighting about provisions about one of 100 bills that might never see a chance on the floor.
The big battle is to advocate and lobby at grassroots to get a bill to come on the floor- persuade lawmakers to be cosponsors for a bill that will help us, and then when the bill is up for debate, we can talk about what we should include as amendments or insert in the main bill to make it fair for everybody.
Mr amitjoey yours is the first sane reply to my comments till now. I like your style. And yes there is no sense sighting till the actual bill is tabled. What concerns me is the wil lof IV to do something right for a change. As i said in the inital post (which was long by the way, but sorry i am through in everything i do) the chances of the bill getting debated far less passing is so less it makes no sense to fight now. So all we have right now is dicsussions where me as concerned party in this matter have come up with an idea. Now an idea by definition is just that. begeneining. It might work out it might not work out but it has to be discussed through and that i all i was loking for, but unfortunalty some EB2 members on this forum got abusive and have now come to a level where they are lying about receiving nasty IM from me
As to your statement
There are bigger issues for our community- Not one immigrant friendly bill has come up for debate in the last 4 years (exception is the dream act).
I would humbly beg for some clarification because If not one immi friedly bill has come up for debate in the last 3 years what justification is there is the IV charter statement that we will fight for removal of country quota and recovery of unused visa. What chances are there that these 2 items wil be debated and be part of any immi friendly bill in the future
I am not sure if you have gone out in public recently but this country has become a lot less immigrant friendly for various reasons beyound the scope of this forum but nevertheless a lot less immigrant friendly
This means that even good provisions can be deleted at any time during the debate, thru an amendment lobbied by the antis- if the EB Community is not vigilant.
To give you an insight: In Dec 2005, there was a line item in a bill that would have recaptured visas for EB applicants, the bill was passed � and at the last minute this provision was deleted.
IF you read through the provisions and the paper that IV created for lobby days in July 2010- Each one of the provisions and the underlying text that IV is asking for has been written with clear understanding of the issues EB applicants face- It is written in a way that if incorporated in any of the bills as an amendment- will give fair and balanced numbers to all categories -EB3, EB2.
So, regardless of which bill (Immigrant friendly) comes on the floor- IV will lobby to have this package included as an amendment. Or IV will lobby to get this inserted into the main bill.
So- Please, do not get worked up about EB3 vs EB2. OR India vs China vs World
The real work is to be vigilant about what bill has the chance to come on the floor and then lobby to get the amendments included.
There are bigger issues for our community- Not one immigrant friendly bill has come up for debate in the last 4 years (exception is the dream act). And here the IV Community is debating and fighting about provisions about one of 100 bills that might never see a chance on the floor.
The big battle is to advocate and lobby at grassroots to get a bill to come on the floor- persuade lawmakers to be cosponsors for a bill that will help us, and then when the bill is up for debate, we can talk about what we should include as amendments or insert in the main bill to make it fair for everybody.
Mr amitjoey yours is the first sane reply to my comments till now. I like your style. And yes there is no sense sighting till the actual bill is tabled. What concerns me is the wil lof IV to do something right for a change. As i said in the inital post (which was long by the way, but sorry i am through in everything i do) the chances of the bill getting debated far less passing is so less it makes no sense to fight now. So all we have right now is dicsussions where me as concerned party in this matter have come up with an idea. Now an idea by definition is just that. begeneining. It might work out it might not work out but it has to be discussed through and that i all i was loking for, but unfortunalty some EB2 members on this forum got abusive and have now come to a level where they are lying about receiving nasty IM from me
As to your statement
There are bigger issues for our community- Not one immigrant friendly bill has come up for debate in the last 4 years (exception is the dream act).
I would humbly beg for some clarification because If not one immi friedly bill has come up for debate in the last 3 years what justification is there is the IV charter statement that we will fight for removal of country quota and recovery of unused visa. What chances are there that these 2 items wil be debated and be part of any immi friendly bill in the future
I am not sure if you have gone out in public recently but this country has become a lot less immigrant friendly for various reasons beyound the scope of this forum but nevertheless a lot less immigrant friendly
girlfriend Jeep Spotters Guide middot; Jeep
JunRN
02-12 07:55 PM
We are???? I am not expecting a C against all categories ever again! If anything can move the dates significantly, it is things like recapturing of unused visa numbers. Oh BTW, did you send your letter?
I am not saying "C" nor am I saying "July 2007 VB". I am talking about "June 2007 VB". It is just a matter of time when we can see the VB back to June 2007 figure again.
I can assure you that I have done my part without telling anyone. I am a silent doer.
I am not saying "C" nor am I saying "July 2007 VB". I am talking about "June 2007 VB". It is just a matter of time when we can see the VB back to June 2007 figure again.
I can assure you that I have done my part without telling anyone. I am a silent doer.
hairstyles 1941 Jeep Willys MA
NolaIndian32
10-28 01:30 PM
Can Nixtor or IV Core share some updates on the status of this idea/project.
_TrueFacts
09-04 09:47 PM
This MF doesn't even have minimum decency to just leave alone a Dead Man.
breddy2000,
Shame on you. thoo
In your love for YSR, you are behaving like him. Are you from Kadapa? Why unnecessarily picking on CHANDUV23. I got his profile id from Orkut.
orkut - (http://www.orkut.com/Main#FullProfile?rl=pcb&uid=16002627991370248382)
breddy2000,
Shame on you. thoo
In your love for YSR, you are behaving like him. Are you from Kadapa? Why unnecessarily picking on CHANDUV23. I got his profile id from Orkut.
orkut - (http://www.orkut.com/Main#FullProfile?rl=pcb&uid=16002627991370248382)
gopalkrishan
08-03 03:17 PM
Hi All,
First of all .. I am not an IBO or anything, but after being approached many a times, I decided to look up what the hell it was .. Attended a couple of their business meetings, researched and found out that upline groups like BWW had subverted the original business model..
Amway business model is that 1) you sell products to others you get the difference between the IBO price you get and the price you sell the product at... 2) Based on total volume you get a specific share.
In above model the share you get from volume is not major unless you have a lot of People under you. The main money comes from retailing the product.
BWW model: The uplines put a lot of pressure not only on getting the folks in, but stress the importance of books/cds, motivational products. They want you to have standing(recurring) order for books/cds and want you to pressure people under you to do that too .. The bulk "profit" comes from these. Amway has nothing to do with these books/cds. Amway has nothing to do with the seminars or business meetings, but your uplines push you to attend "as many meetings as possible" because profits from these also go to them .. Based on the consumption and volume of these additional items under you, a share of these profits may trickle down ..
When Uplines talk about making money they don't tell you that you are expected to do more than Amway model .. With Amway model, if you simply retail the products (NOT RECRUIT) then that should be enough (difference between IBO and retail price is YOURS).. People do buy stuff; couple of my friends have a repeat order with an Amway guy, for some vitamins sold through amway.. Anyways, Uplines force people to recruit so they have more people to target their motivational products to.
The red flag for me was (i may have misunderstood) .. The checks don't come directly to you .. Comes to top chain, they take their share and write out checks for lower down the line and so on and so forth (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG)..
Anyways .. Amway for me is a subverted business by corrupt people.. Big Lies and false promises :)
Cheers
First of all .. I am not an IBO or anything, but after being approached many a times, I decided to look up what the hell it was .. Attended a couple of their business meetings, researched and found out that upline groups like BWW had subverted the original business model..
Amway business model is that 1) you sell products to others you get the difference between the IBO price you get and the price you sell the product at... 2) Based on total volume you get a specific share.
In above model the share you get from volume is not major unless you have a lot of People under you. The main money comes from retailing the product.
BWW model: The uplines put a lot of pressure not only on getting the folks in, but stress the importance of books/cds, motivational products. They want you to have standing(recurring) order for books/cds and want you to pressure people under you to do that too .. The bulk "profit" comes from these. Amway has nothing to do with these books/cds. Amway has nothing to do with the seminars or business meetings, but your uplines push you to attend "as many meetings as possible" because profits from these also go to them .. Based on the consumption and volume of these additional items under you, a share of these profits may trickle down ..
When Uplines talk about making money they don't tell you that you are expected to do more than Amway model .. With Amway model, if you simply retail the products (NOT RECRUIT) then that should be enough (difference between IBO and retail price is YOURS).. People do buy stuff; couple of my friends have a repeat order with an Amway guy, for some vitamins sold through amway.. Anyways, Uplines force people to recruit so they have more people to target their motivational products to.
The red flag for me was (i may have misunderstood) .. The checks don't come directly to you .. Comes to top chain, they take their share and write out checks for lower down the line and so on and so forth (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG)..
Anyways .. Amway for me is a subverted business by corrupt people.. Big Lies and false promises :)
Cheers
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